Generally, if you ask a Panamanian about international travel, they will casually talk about places like Disneyland and New York City. But if you specifically ask them about air transport they will go NUTS. Panamanians that don’t fly Copa, don’t fly at all. If you are ever in a group setting, ask the highest ranking Panamanian how amazing Copa is. This means you are calling him cultured and rich. He will like you (and by proxy, so will the rest of the group).
At first glance, you might ask yourself, why would Panamanians like a company that gauges prices on flights, to such an extent that it becomes too expensive for them to travel to neighboring countries? The simple answer: free drinks. Panamanians love the small bottles of Abuelo rum offered on Copa flights and are therefore happy to pay a premium ticket fare. They also philosophically like to support the one Panamanian business that does things on time.
As for statistics, whenever confronted with a complaint about doing business in Panama, 20% of Panamanians will claim you are an outright liar, 20% will tell you to go f**k yourself, and the remaining 60% will reference Copa Airlines as proof that you are most certainly wrong. In fact, it is a well-liked myth when Panamanians clap as the plane lands, they are actually saluting Copa.
The first thing I’m wondering after reading most of the topics on this blog is if you really live in Panama, or are you just doing this to spike Panama because your partner dumped you and he/she was Panamanian, or maybe a deal went wrong and your counterpart happened to be a Panamanian.
First thing you should know is that “rich” Panamanians like to travel in American Airlines, Delta or Continental. The only destinations that the “rich” considers COPA are Miami and South America, given the fact that for Central America they can choose TACA, which I agree has better in-flight service but lousy counter and reservations. There COPA is far more superior than TACA.
Now seriously…if you go to the USA and you say the same things about doing business in the USA, or US Foreign Policy, etc. You will get the same response. 20% will say you’re full of shit, 20% will tell you to go to hell, and the other 60% will point to New York which is full of crooked bankers.
Most Panamanians sort of like or – at best – tolerate COPA is because it’s still – believe it or not – a Panamanian (see post #72) owned and managed company, unlike the mighty breweries and mobile providers.
COPA happens to be one of the mostly positive images Panama has overseas.
COPA business is not to fly Panamanians in and out of the country, is to fly people thru Tocumen. That’s why airfares to/from Panama are many times overpriced.
The most wealthy Panamanians don’t fly that much COPA becuase they hardly fly to places not in the USA and COPA doesn’t fly to many of the places they like to fly in the USA (Las Vegas, Colorado, Boston) or has a lousy schedule (New York, DC)
Well, I heard its a “party” airline. Panamanians start drinking, they get roudy and boisterous and sometime confrontational.
Well, thanks but no thanks COPA fans. I prefer an airline which is economical, confortable, relaxing, with better options.
Wow. Tough to follow those comments above mine. I’m just going to say this though: we only clap when landing in Panama. And it has NOTHING to do with COPA.
Well, Copa service sucks donkeyballs, especially in PTY. Talk about crappy baggage handling in and out of PTY. Also, they hire these obnoxious teenagers to do the counter work. Their pilots and captains seem get younger everyday too IMO. They seem to act like “top guns” walking ceremonially through the airport hallways like if anyone gives a damn this day and age.
I guess you have nothing to do than write shit on the web, COPA was awarded for fifth year in a row as the most succesfull company in the air transportation business, and just signed up a contract with boeing for more than 2 billions. I guess you were dumped by a Panamanian, guess what women in Panama like real men not low budget replicas!!!!!!!!!!!
Orlando, what are you talking about?
Panamanian women don’t like real men, they like wallets. Period.
Most successful company in the business?? Where the hell do you get that? Can you prove that with actual links to where it says that? My bet is “all in” that the one that writes shit on the web is you!
I just don’t understand the harsh comments from all these “proud” Panamanians. They exude a lack of self confidence. They wreak of self-entitlement. You should all try and educating yourselves or at the very least maturing to the point that you don’t have to use fightin’ words or throw up your dukes the second someone critiques.
A good blog (or any kind of writing for that matter) does not succeed or fail on the strength of its ability to persuade. It succeeds or fails on the strength of its abiity to ENGAGE readers, to make readers think, to give readers a glimpse into someone else’s head — even if in the end they conclude that someone else’s head is not a place you’d really like to be.
Negative Panamanian commenters: wake up and stop being babies.
Blogger: I commend you. While I chuckle at some of the Things more than others, you definitely know your $h*t.
I’d rather use COPA for the miles I get by flying with the Star Alliance. There is no other reason why use COPA, as other airlines
(and better) fly to the countries they fly from Panama. If Continental or US Airways, or United does not fly to this X place, I’d rather use Copa.
If we’re talking free drinks, I bet Copa gives more of them than the cheapskate US airlines do. And if we admit every Panamanian has a nickname, so does Copa: it’s COMPA.
About twenty years ago I told Don Alberto that “I don’t fly with Copa because there is no First Class”. His answer was “what are you talking about? the whole plane is First Class”. So, I learned from the horse’s mouth so to speak, that Copa was indeed a unique airline in which Chivas Regal was served to any passenger who asked for it (even in row 28 B. Nowadays things are different, Copa has a First Class section, so the rich Panamanians and foreign expense-account-Knights can stand out of the lot and snear at the poor coach passengers… I miss the good old days though when “everybody travelled First Class” in Copa.
COPA is NOT a Panamanian Airline, it is an International Airline that happens to have the head quarters in Panama. If COPA was a Panamanian Airline you would have 3 airplanes which of 2 airplanes that would not fly due to lack of parts or maintenance. The ONLY reason COPA is doing good is because of Continental Airlines. Continental built COPA, now a Panamanian is slowly destroying COPA. Very poor leadership on all level, no one gives a shit that works for COPA and very inexperienced management.
COPA waste millions of dollars on training that they claim it is good, it is the worst I ever experienced in my life as a Pilot.
Majority of the Pilots flying for COPA is NOT from PANAMA Pilots, Why? because the Panamanian Pilot refuse to learn English, (The ONLY approved and International recognized Aviation Language) COPA is in a down ward spiral and will eventually be destroyed from the inside, due to not understand that COPA is an International Airline and NOT a Panamanian Airline.
In addition the Panamanian Pilot UNION will help destroy COPA because of their hate for the Gringo Pilots, they rather see the Gringo Pilots go home that see COPA survive.
CAPTAIN COPA AIRLINES
@Ochorca Rider: You must be one of those gringo pilots that work for Copa Airlines because they have been fired, for beeing either too old to qualify as a FAA pilot, or too bad to get a decent job with a legitimate US Airline…
Accepting to work for a miserable half than normal salary is proof that you are a misfit pilot who is reduced to work for a third world airline like Copa Airline.
It is not true that Continental is running Copa Airline. Actually, 51% of Copa Airlines belongs to the Motta family and is run by one of Stanley’s cousin – Osvaldo Heilbronn.
Regading your comments about Panamanian pilots, you are totally mistaken when you say that “they do refuse to speak english”. Actually some of them prefer to work for Emirates Airlines for a decent salary consistent with interational pilot salaries, rather than working for a miserable discounted salary, as do the semi-retired, unon-busting, alcoholic gringo pilots who accept to work for Copa Airlines.
Tell you the truth, I do work for COPA, I also enjoy working for COPA, I have never been fired and I am not to old, only 37, I am furloughed from a Major US airline, I have flown in the Middle east and did not like it, I dont like Arabs. I will be back in the US shortly. I stated that Continental used to own COPA, not any more.
I have actually flown with Panamanian Pilots that refuse to speak English. As for salaries, I would agree with you COPA does not pay market rate. This is controlled by the Panamanian Pilot Union, they are keeping the pay down, we ( numerous Gringo Pilots) have offered to help out using our experience in dealing with management, and with support of ALPA. however your Panamanian Pilots refuse to let us help. You have more union busting pilots within the Panamanian pilot group than from the Gringo Pilots.
If you want to get the pay up at COPA let us help you do that, COPA needs us for their expansion, we have the power to do this if you let us.
As for Alcoholic pilots, COPA have a drug and Alcohol program and I am sure COPA do not hire any pilots with these kind of problems.
You tell ‘em browser!
Hey Dummy,
I am 37 years old and work for a major airline in the states, however I am furloughed. Next COPA have a hiring standard that I guess that you did not meet. COPA is ding a fairly through background check on everyone and I dont think they hire pilots that you describe, or maybe it was a depiction of you and why you did not get hired at COPA.
I flew in the Middle east for 2 years and you are right the pay is slight better. They promise big over there but do not live up to it. Emirates don’t have the living quarters they promise. you will live in the slum with a bunch of Pakistanis. Also I really don’t like arabs.
We are a few Gringos and other expats that have offer to help with the contract negotiations, we have the backing and experience through ALPA Nationals. But your Panamanian boys rejected our help.
As for Continental, I suggest that you read my statement, I never said that Continental owns COPA, I said tey built COPA to what it is today. However it is slowly being revert back to a typical Panama company, a dysfunctional cluster f–k. like everything else in the country.
If you Panamanian would realize that there is a world outside Panama and if you spoke English it would benefit the country, since the rest of the world understands, not speaking English is an huge obstacle for the development of this country.
I agree with Ochorka Rider. I am 50 years old and also a Copa pilot. My previous experience was flying for a large regional airline in the USA. I also flew in Russia and South America for other companies.
There are better paying expat jobs out there, but quality of life is a huge factor when deciding on where you want to spend a significant amount of time.
Hälsningar
@Ochorka RIder: Your comments are confusing. Thanks for letting us know that you have been “furloughed” and that you are a 37 years young Gringo pilot who “doesn’t like Arabs”. The management of the company, even now that Continental acquired 51% of its public shares is still run by Pedro Heilbron, a prominent Panamanian and one of the best managers of the industry. The planes are well maintained, always on time (or sometimes even ahead of time), the passengers are satisfied with the hub of the Americas concept and the Panamanians are proud of what they consider their national flag airline, which definitely makes Copa on top of the list of “Things Panamanians Like”.
Incidentally, saying that the Panamanian Pilot Union wants to keep the salaries low makes absolutely no sense. What keeps salaries below standards are the Gringo pilots who accept to work for a discounted salary.
American will recall me in a few years I hope.
To answer you questions and statements. I am also confused, three of us went to a union meeting a few weeks back, the local pilots did not want us there, in addition we are not allowed to vote on the new contract, we are not allowed to participate in the negotiations, I have been here for 2 years now and believe me we have tried. If you want better work rules, better pay you need to allow us to participate in the process. The Panamanian Pilot group is now a minority and need to understand that they need us.
When we first came on board we had a better deal that the local pilots negotiated away instead of participating in the process.
What you see on the surface of COPA everything looks good, I have been here 2 years and it is nothing but turmoil. This company is on its way down since Continental left. There are a few that is trying, but it is like everything else in this country, nothing works properly.
COPA is not a Panamanian Airline, it is an International Airline based in Panama, there are more expats flying for COPA than locals. You have maybe 7 or 8 airports within the country that can handle a 737, of that you do not have passenger support to handle any of the airports. This is a big difference, it is a mindset of the people that works for COPA. if you want to be the HUB of the Americas, the first thing you need to do is to SPEAK ENGLISH. If it was not for the expat willing to come to this country there would not be a HUB of the Americas, there would not be a COPA.
O RIder
In addition my Panamanian wife will probably not want to go back to the US. So I think I am going to hang around for a few years.
Rider
Ok, maybe I’m drifting away from the subject…but yes, I understand that folks should speak another language, especially since English is pretty much the universal language for commerce. However, Americans are not in a position to point fingers, at least in terms of learning to speak another language. As a matter of fact, for being the most advanced country in the world the U.S. is an embarrassment; a large portion of its population cannot even speak a second language. That’s why I admire some European countries that have made it a priority for their citizens to speak a language other than their own. Believe me, I am only a 23-year-old young man attending a higher education institution in the States, I can bet you that a good portion of the student body (30,000) at my university cannot even utter a word in a foreign language.
I speak 4 languages fluently, and 2 soso, I have not mastered Spanish yet, my wife speaks 2 fluent. What you are talking about is unfunded, the only reason the Europeans speaks a multitude of different languages are the proximity to other countries with the same variation of language.
I hold a MBA in international Economics and a PHD, Geo Politics. I have one draw back and I am dyslectic.
That would be the same as every state in US spoke a different language, look at the boarder states in US, Majority of the population speak Spanish,i.e AZ & New Mexico due to their heritage. That exactly the same as in Europe. So your statement is unfounded and unfair and it demonstrates a major lack of global awareness.
Rider
A language is like music. For instance, I loved listening to the Portuguese language, as spoken by Brazilians of course, long before I could understand what they were “singing”. As a music lover and also a practical businessman, I always made the effort to speak “Portunol” (a mixture of Portuguese and Spanish) before eventually speaking a half way decent Portuguese. It never crossed my mind to expect Brazilians to understand or respond to me English. Trying to speak the language of the country one visits, or lives in is a sign of respect and open mindedness. Residing in a foreign country (sometimes for many years) without making the least effort to speak the language of your hosts is not only counterproductive, but also a recipe for being ostracized. It’s like wearing boxer shorts and Hawaiian shirts when you know that local people frown at, or laugh at such ridiculous outfits, if you see what I mean…
Anyway, coming back to the topic under consideration, if, as you say, it is a fact that the Panamanian pilots do not want Gringo pilots to attend their Union meetings, it may well be because the latter do not speak Spanish – which is their native language outside of the cockpit.
On the other hand I and pretty sure that Panamanian pilots speak well enough English to communicate with the Control Tower Operator at the Miami Airport, especially if that traffic controller is of Cuban origin (LOL) .
Browser, I know what you’re saying about Brazilian Portuguese, it sounds amazing. I can sit down and listen to it all day even if somebody was cursing at me, it’d still sound nice. In turn, the worst sounding languages I’ve ever heard are Hebrew and Arabic; even German sounds enjoyable when compared with the latter two.
Hebrew and Arabic, both very beautiful sounding languages lol. But hey we r all entitled to our own opinions
)
@ Ochorka Rider: well for starters let me tell you that I am global management/communications major. Secondly, I was referring to Anglo-Americans in terms of speaking a second language; it is only natural as you point out, that children of immigrants along the U.S. border will speak another language (Spanish). However, I laugh at these individual’s “second language skills” whom I have met, their Spanish is pretty pathetic. Lastly, I was referring to the fact that most Western Europeans can speak ENGLISH as a second language, nothing to do with geographical proximity. If you speak of geographical proximity then, why don’t a majority of Americans speak Spanish? Mexico is right next door right? Please take your blinding jingoism somewhere else if you can’t accept the facts.
Ask a Frenchman, very few speak English, Italians and Spaniards some, Dutch and Belgium, younger generation yes, Germans is about 50%. Swedes, Norwegians about 50% and Finns 10%. These numbers are based on each individual country’s education report, you can Google it. So you are overstating the “facts”. The fact is it is strictly geographical. The proximity of other countries with different culture and language is what dictates what language is spoken influenced by dialects.
As for the Spanish that are Spoken along the boarder of US, is based on the educational level of the individual and heavily influenced by local dialects. As a matter of fact the Latin American Spanish and the South American Spanish is totally different from the European Spanish. It is called language evolution, an original language that changes due to geographical and the socioeconomic climate. As you well know that the queens English is is rarely spoken, even in England.
Rider
Give me a peered review source where you got your info, there is a lot of crap floating in google.
Spanish is kind of gay so we prefer to not learn much of it. The only exception is that we know just enough to talk to the Colombianas.
Spanish is kind of gay? lol. What cave did you crawl out of?
About fifty years ago, when I still was a naïve youngster, I actually believed that ESPERANTO would become the universal language. Nowadays, who speaks, or even heard of Esperanto? In those “good old days” I also thought that FRENCH would always remain the diplomatic language and that SPANISH would always remain the second most widely spoken language in the world. I was wrong on all accounts of course. It is an undisputable fact that today’s universal language is English. French is only spoken in the most sophisticated social and diplomatic circles and even in Spain, Spanish (or better said Castellan) is challenged by the Catalan, Gallego and Euskadi dialects. It may be too bad, but those are facts and one cannot argue against facts. Yes, English is not only the official language of the sea and air transportation industry, it is also the generally accepted common language for business around the world. As a result, learning to understand, speak, read and write English has become a must everywhere and should become mandatory in all the schools of the Republic of Panama, as it is elsewhere. It is a pity that under the exacerbated nationalistic years of the military dictatorship teaching English in school was prohibited. Consequently, a whole generation has been sacrificed by a bunch of narrow minded goons and is now badly handicapped when looking for a job where speaking English is required.
All that being said, thanks to Jorge Luis Borges, Gabriel Garcia Marques, Mario Vargas Llosa (just to mention a few), Spanish literature is one of the richest and most colorful languages in the world.
Good point browser, I agree with you. What I have a problem with is some of the English speaking foreigners that come to Panama or anywhere else, expecting people to cater to them in English. For example, if I were to visit Germany I know I wouldn’t expect anybody to “baby” me in English or Spanish; I would only use them as a last resource if I couldn’t get anything across.
Dude you sure as hell don’t know what you are talking about. If you are going to be a pilot here or in China you better know how to fluently speak english. English is the universal pilot language by excelence and there is a reason for this: SAFETY. Air traffic control needs to get a standard flow of information from pilots w/o accents or slang. Try to understand what a chilean, cuban, paraguayan, or argentinian with a heavy accent says when he speaks fast and you will only understand 70% of what they say at best. Pilots refusing to learn English are nothing more than mediocres. Like it isn’t
already easy enough when in Copa you can get hired with a mesely 250 hours (50 of these in multiengine) and a high school diploma where everywhere else in the world you need a good 1000 hours in multi engine alone and a university degree in something ( aeronautical science, meteorology, etc) to even be considered.
Imbecil, lee mi publicación primero y después comenta. Y si no sabes una pizca de castellano igual te puedo traducir.
Well this discussion is mute, why just not restrict all pilots that are not able to obtain an English level 6 to only fly in Panama, since they obviously refuse to learn English, Ops! Copa does not operate any domestic flights. Well how about restricting COPA to operate in ONLY Spanish speaking countries, well that removes Brazil, US and Canada, Ops! that goes against the COPA business model to be the Hub of Americas.
If a country with 2 million citizens refuses to join the rest of the industrialized world, it ends up being a third world country. Panama is a trashy filthy dirty country, with Panamanians that are lazy, refuse to take responsibility and improve their life. Panama pretends to be a country with a rich history but have none. If it was not for USA and Teddy Roosevelt Panama would be named Columbia.
Ese que se llama “Pete Rider” es un gringo ardido. Seguro trabajaba para Copa y lo despidieron, por eso está hablando un sinfín de babosadas. Me alegra mucho que ya canalizaste tu ira.
@ Ochorka Rider es un piloto jubilado de 55 años.
Ahora se metió a puto después de jubilado!
I am 45 years old, not retired and on a temporary leave from my real airline job.
The heated discussion about Copa we see in these comments is a symptom of only 1% of all the junk that goes behind the scenes. Copa is a sweatshop in the business in terms of employee treatment. Its no wonder Copa is so lucrative. My due respects to the hard working class that leave sweat, blood and tears believing in a false promise of professional growth but instead only receive ridiculous compensation and sub standard conditions. After Motta passed away, Copa is now run by people that really do not like the airline business unlike the pilots and technicians that are the only ones that truly make this airline work. I have to agree with @Ochorka Rider in that Copa has a terminal cancer and to the eyes of a connoisseur looks like Hugo Chavez.
Hey Jim Morrison I would agree with you, COPA is run by a bunch of incompetent morons, eventually they will put one in the dirt, and it is just a matter of time.
As for the celebrated 55 yr. old pilot I would agree with him 100%. Since there is no word in Spanish for retired the common word used is jubilado, the true meaning of jubilado is celebrated. I guess when you retire you can celebrate.
I think I am goingto Habanos tonight….
So should we worry about our safety flying on COPA where the pilots refuse to learn/speak fluent English or visit a country that doesn’t seem to like “gringos??